Talk:He, She and It

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Does anyone feel we should remove the empty responses to some of the questions on the response section?  I know the questions are still there but if no one has responded to them, should we even have those questions?

I feel that we should keep the questions. Even though that particular group's class discussion maybe over, people are constantly looking for opportunities to contribute to the wiki. The only reason to remove a certain question is if it is decidedly irrelevant. -- ltolentino3

I retitled the discussion section of this article to be consistent with how the Neuromancer page currently is and how the Schismatrix page appeared while we were still editing it. That is, each group of chapters we cover in class will have its own section with a heading in the form "Discussion, Section X." I did notice that efforts are being made to make more sense of the Schismatrix article by removing these discrete discussion sections and turning them into a more approachable body of text. However, I feel that it is reasonable to keep the more chaotic formatting for He, She and It until we are done discussing it in class. Is this ok, or do some of you feel that we should take a different approach? E.t.dale 18:04, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Also, this may be a bit nitpicky, but the novel is actually He, She and It with no comma after the "she." It is kind of a minor detail, but I wanted to bring it up just for the sake of accuracy. E.t.dale 18:04, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Fixed. Tanner 22:03, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

I think that we may as well move the analysis by part to separate pages.  In fact, this is even more important while editing, as if the page is too long, you can't use a number of browsers to edit the analysis.  It wouldn't take to much time, and someone could get wiki credit.  I don't want to be presumptive, so I personally won't try to move it until we decide as a group, but my vote is that we split it up at some point in the near future.  --Ben

      That may be a solid idea, keeping it cleaner than anything else. The organization is good as it is now, but remember, being redirected to a whole new page is almost too much work for the laziest of viewers - Sean

I don't think editing should be a problem. The page is split up into sections, so the browser only has to load one section while editing. Robert'); DROP TABLE Students;-- 13:45, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

      OH!  I was editing the page as a whole.  I didn't realize you could edit just the one section.  Thanks Robert! -- Ben

How would you edit just one section of the page?--Punnava3 19:23, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
You can edit one section of the page by clicking the edit button next to each heading.Rcrl3 14:56, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Is Malcolm's entry necessary? I mean, he only showed up for one scene, and he is not that important anymore. Shouldn't he just be deleted from the list of MAJOR characters? -tcorbett3

Agreed. Fixed. E.t.dale 12:42, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
Characters in the story that showed up for once needs to be deleted I think. Exactly like supporting actor in the movie.

Why do we need to "delete" things that some feel are unimportant? It's a wiki; some people may feel these aspects are important, and it's not costing us anything to keep them on here. (sgilmore7)

I agree that minor characters may not fit within the context of a major character list, but removing them entirely may not be the best option. Perhaps the creation of a minor character list to give recognition to other characters that influenced the plot would be appropriate?Msmith312 21:54, 26 April 2011 (UTC)


Its not that we deleted him because we felt he was unimportant, he was under the list of major characters, which he clearly is not. Most information on this wiki and this page specifically is not deleted. The removal of Malcolm is really more of an edit then a deletion, so I don't think it has to do with a person opinion. --Crossi7 05:15, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Contents

G-d

Does anyone know why they keep censoring out the word "God", like this "G-d"? I've seen this already a few times through the first chapters in the book, and I forgot to mention, but there is an example on page 65. -tcorbett3

I really think it has to do with religion in this story. I know that some religions are sensitive on the use of such words, and using gods name in vain.

Writing the names of God is a fairly serious affair in Judaism. There are strict prohibitions against defacing such a name written in text. As a result, it is often more convenient for observant Jews to write "G-d" as an abbreviation for God. E.t.dale 22:14, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
This is similar to Islam's veneration of Mohammad. In strict Islamic writing (English text, anyway), Mohammad is written uniformly as Mohammad(phuh). This stands for Mohammad(peace be upon him). -bstewart8

I agree with this statement. The third commandment states that they shall not use the Lord's name in vain. --Jpham7 16:05, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Similar Plots

Just wondering if anyone else noticed how similar the plot lines for this story and Neuromancer are. I mean its got similar characters and at the end of the day the main characters are just trying to break into a company.... I'm saying yes it has varying details and such but it just all seemed so repetitive from Neuromancer which made it hard for me to read since I could practically guess what was going to happen. Yes I do understand that this is a very popular story arc, but really both contain a robot/cyborg who is helping a human and have relations with each other and they are both attempting to accomplish similar goals. Sorry for making it sound like I am ranting, but I was wondering if anyone else felt the same way?

I find the plots are definitely different. In Neuromancer the focus is on breaking Wintermute out. In He She and It the focus is on human robot interaction. Also Yod is different than Wintermute in that he is trying to become more human. Wintermute is just trying to break free of his constraints. There are a whole hosts of other reason that the books are different, but I do not feel like going into details.

I'm not sure that the difference between Yod and Wintermute is as large as you make it out to be. As you say, Wintermute is trying to break free of his constraints, but so is Yod in a way. Yod was built primarily for one purpose, but his human-like mind (since we of course never decided whether he was human) definitely desired to do more than what he was created for. He wanted to experience things he was never meant to. I don't see how that is necessarily that different from Wintermute's rational. Of course, they have different ways of going about it.
I think there is a similarity as you mentioned but I think that one of the main differences is that He, She and It is much more of a love story than Neuromancer. Also He, She and It explores making Yod (and the Golem) human whereas the artificial beings of Neuromancer are easily made to seem human (at least on the net) and there is more of a discussion in Neuromancer about how those AIs are a bad thing for humanity.

Further Reading

  • For further reading into He, she and It, I found a useful resource that combines the relevence of the Cyborg Manifesto and He, She and It. You can find it here. This link can be used as a tool to further discussion and participation in class/ wiki. The language is easy to understand and useful in understanding the complicated claims of Donna Haraway.
    • Your link appears to be slightly broken. --Jmayhue3 15:16, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Mature Audiences Only

He, She and It was definitely a book for mature audiences. I'm glad that we all stepped our of our comfort zones to be able to talk and discuss this one.

Definitely agreed. While there was sex, drugs, and scandal among our first two novels, nothing quite compared to the in depth discussion of cyborg-human sexual interactions that occurred in He, She and It. Much of the in-class discussion seemed to skirt the gory details of tese interactions, which is probably for the better, but I was still very surprised to see these themes in a class. High school english reading was never this interesting. --Jmicali13 06:44, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
I feel like sex and relationships were an integral part of the book and helped get across what the author was trying to say in the book but I didn't find it really all that relevant to my interests. Those things made the book what it was but they didn't make the book anymore amazing than the next book. I find the topic of drugs interesting in all of these cyberpunk books, though. There seems to be an implicit endorsement of drugs or they seem to at least minimize the fear that we're taught to have about drugs. Drugs in these books are treated just like medicine. All in all, I agree that this book was definitely not a high school book though. - David
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